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May God bless you all,

The team at BishopWatch

You wrote

“3. Then you question the bishop about a fundraising party and how could the church have such an event in such a time of fasting.

(Poor again) was it not Jesus that said when asked ( how could you heal on the Sabbath the Sabbath is a day for the lord didn’t he answer them by saying you vultures and broods any one of you would take his ass to drink on the Sabbath, in your words FUNDRAISING what was this fundraising for it was for the church for the house of god”

Healing on the Sabbath by Christ the most high is hardly comparable to running parties during the fasting period. The fasting period is for our spiritual nourishment, reflection of ones actions and repentance of sin. The Holy fathers of the church have given us these rules to follow and they are intended for our salvation. I’m sure that from an academic perspective you are alone in your view which justifies Church parties during the Great Lent. How can you celebrate whilst we hold vigil before the crucification of our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ.

Whilst I hold you captive to this post I will attempt to preach to you about the Acts of the Apostles. Notice here they are called the Acts, not convenient options. The learning begins;

Acts Ch 6

1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

As you are a member of the committee I pray that you recognise how this teaching is as relevant today as it was nearly 2000 years ago and that you apply it to the St Paul’s parish. I encourage you to help liberate your Priest who works tirelessly for his people from his worldly commitments by directing some of the money collected from the people to the Parish Priest as a stipend. How fruitful could he be if he were but only liberated from the burden of supporting himself financially and serving the parish. Imagine what he could do for you and your family, for the youth in the Parish and for the sick the suffering then poor and the homeless.

There was a time when we could not afford to support a priest financially (Even that argument is debateable). Now however with the church debt almost fully repaid we can certainly afford to liberate the Priest.
In saying this, I have detracted from the purpose of this site however I must confess that you have angered me with your post. Forgive me brother if I have sinned against you.

Love
BIC

Whoru06, you also say “To finish I believe the bishop answered this letter in the only way it should have been answered…”I think your alone in this as even the posts that don’t agree with Josephs views are not agreeing to this, but trying to work out why the bishop responded in this way. I’m wasting my time even writing this to you.

My initial concern is that the perceived norm to an issue is to leave it alone and it will go away. Issues need to be raised and answered accordingly in the appropriate manner.

Joseph writes, “……….imagine that your own flesh father berates you in your home privately. Would you post it on the internet?…” the Bishop is a public figure and this is not the way to behave when you have a high power position, and not a good example to set for the upcoming generation.

I am very disappointed that when a youth member asks a question internally, he gets no answer. When it is escalated to the Bishop, he get the letter that he did. Once the issue is made public, it had made people sit up and listen and possibly appears to be the only way to get answers. The Youth is an important building block for any church and Joseph could be an important contributor to St Paul’s in the years to come.

I support the truth and I have not heard one good reason why this web site should be shut down yet, but I think it’s a good idea to close posting as the posts are deviating from the issue at hand.

May I congratulate Joseph in his wise decision to close this topic tonight. There is no doubt in my mind that these issues need to be aired. We have had sufficient time to discuss this matter, and may I say in a quite civilised way. The lessons that I take it from it are several 1) Put your faith ONLY in God 2)Clergy are fallible human beings that also require the medicine of repentance 3) People in the church are liable to avoid facing the fact that clergy misbehave 4) Obedience is the fruit that comes from a self giving pastorate exercised with charity 5) God is the object our worship not the church, the patriarch the priest or the people 6) Always jusdge an argument or a statement on it’s OWN merits and not on who happens to say it 6) The church has nothing to fear from the truth being told 7)Paray for the bishop, the priests and deacons, the monastics and all the believers that we may witness Jesus more courageously The church should be more accountable than a worldly institution not less ……..and last but not least get the people to bring their own food to share after Liturgy so the kitchen working ladies can offer their prayers with the rest of the congregation!

(poor opinion)No proof of any other person available in fact everyone at St Paul love the charity work they do for the church and believe it or not this has been going on for years in all churches, every one strives to build the lords house with all its glory and they are rewarded in ways that you obviously don’t understand, you may think that you do but truly you don’t.

2. You say to the bishop that you understand his ambition to build churches and valuable community structures to serve the community and in the next paragraph you state that this leads to aggressive financial agenda instead of spirituality.

(poor again) how can the Bishop be doing anything bad with his mind set on building churches which answers your spirituality question and have in mind to build valuable community structures which are needed (Did the Bishop put his hand in your pocket and take the money for these projects?) Your question to the bishop should be how can I help my community achieve these great ideas.

3. Then you question the bishop about a fundraising party and how could the church have such an event in such a time of fasting.

(Poor again) was it not Jesus that said when asked ( how could you heal on the Sabbath the Sabbath is a day for the lord didn’t he answer them by saying you vultures and broods any one of you would take his ass to drink on the Sabbath, in your words FUNDRAISING what was this fundraising for it was for the church for the house of god, and how hypocritical of you to mention alcohol, (tell the truth tell all who was serving the alcohol?)

To finish I believe the bishop answered this letter in the only way it should have been answered although I agree with the bishop that there should not have been an answer to such a poor thought letter. No high authority would take note of such a letter ( Not a King, Nor a President nor a Prime Minister) as you have been told before go through the ranks to get your opinion through just like everyone else you are no different.

I’m glad to see that this blog will end today and I also hope this web site will end too as this will be my last comment and will not visit this site till it is credible and accountable.

Firstly, let me take this opportunity to express the great sadness I feel at the state of affairs regarding this website. I am compelled to write this sorrowful post because as Orthodox Christians, we simply do not slander, defame or cause any unnecessary harm to our beloved in Christ, whether justified or not.

Lord have mercy.

Firstly to my brother Joe Matar… All of us are afforded Christian love and Christian charity. The commandment that Christ gave us before His Ascension was to “Love one another as I have loved you”. This love is different to other forms of love because, this love is unconditional. To love everyone without any conditions, no matter who they are and no matter what they have done… even our enemies. This love is what sets us apart from the rest of the Christian world. Christian love is the foundation of all virtues, and the root of holiness, which is what we all ought to aspire to. It is with this love that we address our clergy, Bishop’s included. It is with this love that you should humbly accept the Bishop’s reply to your letter.

A few Questions I have for you.

1. How do you think that the Metropolitan feels? Is it right for you to ask questions to the Bishop in private, yet you broadcast his answer to the world?

2. How do you thing the People of St Paul’s feel about this? How does Fr George feel about this?

3. How are you feeling? Deep inside if you are uncertain or uneasy, it is because this has become a scandal. A controversy.

4. Without a spiritual father (you have stated verbally to me that you don’t have one), without a rock solid relationship with Christ, the Mother of God, your patron saint Joseph, your holy guardian angel, and in general, without striving for the heavenly realm, are you in any way equipped or authorised to police or judge anyone, let alone a Hierarch?

Joseph, imagine that your own flesh father berates you in your home privately. Would you post it on the internet? Of coarse not because you love your father. But remember the unconditional love I referred to earlier…. this is what we live our lives by.

Our Metropolitan is not looking to put any unnecessary financial strain on any of our Churches. His ideas are born out of pure love for his Church and his people. The idea of a school and a child care centre is brilliant for a few reasons; I shall list some:

1. A child care centre cancels out the dependency for a function hall since, a constant income is generated weekly.

2. A school will fulfil the needs of the younger generations since, spiritual education will be at the forefront of the curriculum.

The Metropolitan is a very passionate man, just listen to his sermons. Haven’t you noticed that they are almost always said in English? Even when our Arab speaking parents complain to the Metropolitan about everything being in English, he persists because he loves the youth and sees the youth as the future. The future is you, it is I. It is the youth of the Antiochian Orthodox Church that will be carrying the holy legacy of right believing Christianity. This is love. This is what the Bishop has said, yet hardly anyone has understood the Bishop’s love.

Finally, I would like to express something deeply intimate with you. I have complete empathy for you because I too have been on the receiving end of tough love from our Metropolitan. At the time I was disillusioned with him BUT…. what I failed to realize at the time was that I had become so proud in my approach to the Bishop, I had elevated myself to the status of judge and therefore god. Christ sent me my Metropolitan to humble me because, I wouldn’t humble myself. I thank Christ for that day, and I am indebted to our Bishop for teaching me humility.

Now is your opportunity. God loved you Joseph because, he has put a choice before you. Decommission this website, place you faith in Christ since he can see the state of our Church & He has permitted things to be the way that they are. Put your hands together with our Metropolitans hands, and Fr George’s hand, and all of the youth’s hands… and let’s build a lasting legacy that provides orthodox Christianity to the people of Australia…

Learn from my mistake and humble yourself before the Lord.

Your unworthy and sinful servant in Christ

Reader Joseph Elcheikh

This is not a National Geographic forum… but thank you for all those facts regardless

I am wondering why Christ didn’t tell me what kind of grape i was in His vineyard. Am I a from the
* Vitis riparia, a wild vine of North America, sometimes used for winemaking and for jam. (the jam is a metaphor for being sweet)

or am I of the
* Vitis labrusca family, the North American table grape juice grapevines sometimes used for wine (a metphor for intoxicating on goodness)

(yay for Wikipedia)

IXthis888 pardon the malevolence directed at you. Your words are obviously filled with love for Christ and for our Church. Whether you know our bishop or not, is not the issue. User George seems to have misread all of your comments. I enjoyed all of them, in particular the comparison that we are all flies. In fact… how many of our members cleanse our hands let alone our souls before approaching the body and blood of Christ?

User ‘neverforget’… your recollection is a beautiful portrayal of many of our stories… the innocent ignorance and refusal for idle gossip as children and young adults is what got us here. I enjoyed your suggestion that we not be whisked away by politics.

YBIC
Kingfly (yes i realise my name is different)

Neverforget, The church has done much for me also like you, and I don’t want to see things get out of control. If the state of the church keeps going the way it is, do you think our kids would seriously want to have any part of it? Many already chose not to.

As society gets “smarter” and more “brainwashed” with western world traditions, if the church is not strong enough to draw our kids in and keep them in, once the elders pass on and the next generation take control, how many members do you think St. Pauls will have in comparison?

Ixthis888, you wrote “ I asked myself the question, why would an educated “Bishop” respond so ‘abruptly’ to a youth …and I tried to put as many possibilities forward … For someone in an ‘authority’ position to reply so ‘bluntly’ perhaps suggests that the person/s could have been previously “annoying him”.” …………Are you being judgemental or do you know more than you lead on. You stated you don’t know the bishop yet your posts imply the opposite. Let’s say you are correct and that he was “annoying” him for a response. Is this a response that can be excused from a holy man? A response which I regard as blasphemous. Is this how Jesus would have answered a youth if he was “annoying him” with a legitimate question??

Ixthis888, I thought your bee story was rude to tell someone this story and ask them which group of friends they want to be apart of. Bees are almost deaf, so if you say lets be like the bee, does this mean lets not listen or care, lets bury our heads in the sand whilst our leaders continue to travel the wrong pathway, as long as you(the worker bee) land on the flower and take the pollen back to your hive?(to the queen bee) (Pollen being the metaphor for money, and hive the church).

Let’s have a closer look at your story. There are different types of flies as there are bees. For Flies, some of them are the blow fly, the black horse fly, the Australian robber fly and funnily enough, a large bee fly in the genus Bombylius. Adult bee fly’s drink nectar and their larva is a parasite in the nest of solitary bees. So you have the pretend bees which are actually flies and are damaging to the Bees nests.

Again different types of bees exist such as Queen Bee, Worker bee and the drone bee. Bees are called Social Insects. Worker bees guard the entrance to the colony’s home, which is called a hive. They cool it by fanning their wings. Other workers collect nectar to make honey. Each worker bee has a stinger and uses it in defence of itself and the hive.

I see the group behind BW as the Bees, the hive being the Church and they are the workers trying to protect it. Why do the negative commenter’s want to suppress the truth? Jesus only spoke of the truth and certainly did not require their permission to humiliate them. Granted that the group at BW are not Jesus, but they do seek the truth, not trying to oppress the truth like many here want.

People are posting teachings and making them favourable to their own ideas just like I have turned the bee story around from Ixthis888 and made it more favourable to my point.

What we need is less stories and more discussion of the point of this web site, and the direction the church as a whole is heading long term. Should it keep flying on this path with people burying their heads in the sand or should we demand change!

There is nothing more annoying than the loud blow fly and I hate the smell of fly spray.